Cambios · Sep 16, 2010, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quick background: I bought GW when it came out. For whatever reason it just didn't catch me. I always liked the business model and planned to give it a shot later. Fast forward to now, I grabbed all the expansions and even the bonus pack, and am having a lot of fun.

But I feel like I'm doing a lot of things wrong.

I made a new character in Nightfall figuring it would be easier to re-learn the game with a new character. He's now a level 9 warrior/paragon. I have two heroes - a warrior and a monk. I generally run with Kimh (the monk) henchman because when I don't we just get torn up.

I feel like I am setting my heroes/henchman up with the wrong powers or something, or maybe even my own character.

My character's template: OQkSEPKSCF7gBGAhwbXF/VdF

Koss's template: OQASEH6NCF/CgJwoV4K/VBA

Dunkoro's template: OwAT0MnApJjASyJ0V8BKplETAA

Gearwise, I'm using mostly Sunspear Cuirass crafted armor from the npc, Turai's Sword, Serrated Shield from /bonus.

I basically just let my henchman do their own thing. I don't micromanage any of their buffs, other than the fact that I have Koss' frenzy turned off and I only hit it when I think its safe.

I have done a lot of research on builds, but almost everything I find is about end game builds. So leveling up I don't really know what I should be shooting for, how I should be getting my "good" skills unlocked, etc.

Your help is greatly appreciated!

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 16, 2010, 04:23 AM // 04:23

For reference:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Que ry

1) TNTF is too expensive.
2) Get Flail. Unlock it using Balthazar Faction and then buy it in Kamadan.
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unlock
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zaishen_Challenge

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Qu ery

1) WY needs Tactics.
2) Ditch Frenzy. Unless you can build to accomodate it, it'll do more harm then good, especially on a hero.
3) Get Flail.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Que ry

1) Get rid of the smites. You're better off having Dunkoro keep you alive and have another damage dealer than Dunkoro not being good enough and having to take another monk.

---------------------

Overall it's not too bad. You just need to get more/better skills. Unlocking them means your heroes can use them (without you needing to buy them) so if you find good hero builds it isn't hard to put them together.

Also, if you want an easy introduction, Prophecies is a better option.

Cambios · Sep 16, 2010, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Also, if you want an easy introduction, Prophecies is a better option.

Thank you for all the tips!!!

I was told by a number of friends that leveling up is a lot faster in Nightfall, and that it is more fun too. Plus I like Egyptian theme stuff so its a good fit.

I'm actually thinking about starting over again with an Elementalist. It sounds like they can really make for a solid solo (and later farming) character, and sometimes its getting annoying chasing after mobs.

i assume the henchman tips are the same, what about elementalist leveling up builds? And what's a good secondary for a good leveling up and farming build?

Thanks!

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 16, 2010, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cambios

I was told by a number of friends that leveling up is a lot faster in Nightfall, and that it is more fun too. Plus I like Egyptian theme stuff so its a good fit.

Leveling up is faster, but that's probably a bad thing if you're a new player. Leveling up slowly means you have more time to adjust and learn the game mechanics, how to play, etc before you get thrown into the deep end.

Fun is subjective. People tend to prefer the story of Prophecies, which may or may not be a major factor in whether you enjoy the game.

Quote:

I'm actually thinking about starting over again with an Elementalist. It sounds like they can really make for a solid solo (and later farming) character, and sometimes its getting annoying chasing after mobs.

Play what you think you'd prefer. You'll figure out which playstyle you like more after a while. You've got lots of character slots to play with, so making another char isn't a big deal.

If by 'solo' you mean playing the game with a 1 person party, you're out of luck. GW is a team based game. You can't just load up a build and roll over it easily without a team backing you up.

If by 'solo' you mean you plus a bunch of AI (which is called 'H/H') all professions perform well. This isn't really a concern.

If you're concerned about farming (you don't ever need to farm), you're much better off with a Rit or an Assassin (both of which would require you to start in Factions).

Quote:

i assume the henchman tips are the same, what about elementalist leveling up builds? And what's a good secondary for a good leveling up and farming build?

Thanks!

Hero/Hench tips are the same, at least for now. Later on you'll want to customise your build so that it suits an Ele rather than a Warrior (who would fill the hero slots with physical buffs).

For builds, secondary advice, etc read the sticky in the Elementalist sub-forum.

Cambios · Sep 16, 2010, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Yeah when I said solo I meant H/H.

I've been reading all the class guides and its weird how classes don't end up playing the role I'd expect.

I expected elementalist to be a class, ranged and/or AoE nuker, but it sounds like that's not the case.

I generally prefer light tank/dps tank type characters, though when I can do that ranged its even better.

I started looking at the paragon. That looks interesting. They don't have much/any AoE though so I'm wondering how well they can grind/farm. I actually enjoy grinding. ;p

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 16, 2010, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Paragons are by far the last thing you want to play if you want to farm a lot. Their skills are based on buffing their team. They aren't designed with any solo survivability.

Also, Elementalists can AoE nuke, which they do perfectly well in Normal Mode, but as they get further into the game the damage they deal gets lower (foes have more levels and more armor) so they're better off running support type builds. There is no reason you can't nuke if you want to, you just won't be as efficient as you could be.

Nijntjuh · Sep 16, 2010, 06:50 AM // 06:50

You seem overconerned with farming I'd suggest you just play through the storyline and get a feel for the game you don't have to farm to get up to your max equipment. If you insist on farming as soon as you hit level 20 then you might want to take a look at this website: www.pvxwiki.com it has alot of builds stored and has a farming section which might suit you.

Farming Section: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Category:G...farming_builds

Speedclear Section: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Category:G...king_SC_builds

Speedclears are basicly like the name says clearing an area in the lowest amount of time as possible to get the reward. These are usually done in a team of 8 people. I don't think you should focus on these speedclears yet though they require a sort of knowledge of gw skills and use you will pick the basics up after playing through nightfall campaign I guess. You'r best bet to learn these speedclears after that is to watch some videos on youtube to get an idea of what to do and then join a PuG (Pick up Group)

Nechrond · Sep 16, 2010, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Actually, if you prefer H/H, I'd stick with what you've got. The AI for melee henchies and heroes is not very good; if you do the melee part yourself, you will, on average, have smarter henchies. Don't worry about not having ranged heroes, you'll get plenty later on.
Warrior has decent AoE as well, through an elite skill called 100 Blades (only works on a sword warrior).

Cambios · Sep 16, 2010, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Basically, I want a fun character to get my first to level 20 so I can see more of the game.

My warrior/paragon (level 10 or 11) isn't bad, but chasing after people in melee sometimes gets annoying. I don't know if that gets better later.

Paragon sounds interesting. It has range. Seems to have good DPS via the "Imbagon" build, and good team support.

Elementalist seems like it would be cool to for blasting through mobs to go through the storyline.

One thing that is tough is I cannot find any "leveling up guides" anywhere. Everything is end game. So I can't figure out what I should have at say level 5, or level 10 to see if I am moving in the right direction.

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 16, 2010, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cambios

Basically, I want a fun character to get my first to level 20 so I can see more of the game.

My warrior/paragon (level 10 or 11) isn't bad, but chasing after people in melee sometimes gets annoying. I don't know if that gets better later.

It does get better. You'll learn (either by yourself or by reading guides) how to pull, hold aggro, etc. Doing that means the foes will be closer together and there will be less time running around and more time hitting things.

Quote:

Paragon sounds interesting. It has range. Seems to have good DPS via the "Imbagon" build, and good team support.

The Imbagon isn't built for DPS. It's built purely to keep "Save Yourselves" up permanently. Note that if you aren't running this exact build, other people are very unlikely to let you into their groups. I imagine it gets dull incredibly fast. If ranged DPS is your thing, you're better off with a Ranger (not that Rangers are DPS machines, but they're better at it (not to mention that their primary attribute, Expertise, makes it viable for you to use Scythes and Daggers too if you like)).

Quote:

One thing that is tough is I cannot find any "leveling up guides" anywhere. Everything is end game. So I can't figure out what I should have at say level 5, or level 10 to see if I am moving in the right direction.

You don't need leveling up guides. Levels 1-19 is really just a tutorial sp don't worry about what you should have by what point. Nothing barring your primary profession is a permanent choice in this game. If you don't like your skills, change them. If you don't like your attributes, change them. If you don't like your secondary attribute, change it (you won't be able to do this until you get past a certain point in the story though), if you don't like your party composition, change it. GW isn't like other games where level progression and gradual character building are the key points of interest. If you are able to handle the content you're going fine.

Cambios · Sep 16, 2010, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

If ranged DPS is your thing, you're better off with a Ranger (not that Rangers are DPS machines, but they're better at it (not to mention that their primary attribute, Expertise, makes it viable for you to use Scythes and Daggers too if you like)).

I thought about that, but then I started reading about rangers and everyone was trashing them for subpar DPS and being nothing particularly good or special to a team.

I can tell you that making new characters over and over is getting old. Trying to settle on something that "fits" is tough.

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 16, 2010, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Paragons aren't anything special DPS-wise. Rangers are probably better (definitely if you run Daggers or Scythe). Don't worry too much about the people that say that Rangers suck. While it's true that they don't do as much damage as other professions, they're definitely not useless. If you want to play one, play one. It's a game remember, you're supposed to be having fun.

Cambios · Sep 16, 2010, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Paragons aren't anything special DPS-wise. Rangers are probably better (definitely if you run Daggers or Scythe).

If I was going to melee, I'd probably just stick with my war/paragon, no?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Don't worry too much about the people that say that Rangers suck. While it's true that they don't do as much damage as other professions, they're definitely not useless. If you want to play one, play one. It's a game remember, you're supposed to be having fun.

Yes, that's true. But part of having fun is finding a playstyle that fits. I'm having a lot of trouble with that!

What about this barrage/pet ranger? The R/Rt?

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 16, 2010, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cambios

If I was going to melee, I'd probably just stick with my war/paragon, no?

The point was that you could swap between ranged (playstyle) or melee (dps) whenever you wanted rather than having a character thats only good at one of them.

Quote:

What about this barrage/pet ranger? The R/Rt?

I've never run one, but they seem decent enough.

Cambios · Sep 16, 2010, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

The point was that you could swap between ranged (playstyle) or melee (dps) whenever you wanted rather than having a character thats only good at one of them.

Aha! I see what you mean. So ranger/assassin or ranger/dervish? What are the pros and cons of each during leveling up time?

I see the ranger has some AoE arrows and such. Any CC or knockdowns or anything like that? Any kind of defense or survivability?

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 16, 2010, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cambios

Aha! I see what you mean. So ranger/assassin or ranger/dervish? What are the pros and cons of each during leveling up time?

You'll be able to change your secondary after a while. You won't be able to pick /A unless you're in Cantha (the Factions place), so go /D if you want melee capability now.

Quote:

I see the ranger has some AoE arrows and such. Any CC or knockdowns or anything like that? Any kind of defense or survivability?

CC (crowd control, I'm assuming) doesn't exist as such in GW. There is no skill effect that directly makes the foes want to attack you. The AI is smarter, preferring to attack people that have less armor and health. You can gain aggro with certain techniques however. Read the articles on the Wikis and in the sticky in the Warrior subforum. Rangers do not have any skills that cause knockdown either, but you could use non-Ranger skills for this if you really want to. Defense and survivability is generally the job of the backline, but there are good blocking stances and self-heals if you want them. Ranger armor is pretty good, it's better than that of squishy caster types but less effective than War/Para armor. However, Ranger armor has +30AL vs elemental, which puts the Ranger at the top when facing elemental damage.

Cambios · Sep 16, 2010, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Thanks for continuing to discuss this and answer questions. I know I'm being annoying with my bouncing all over the place.

How is paragon dps compared to ranger dps? I read some more posts and its all "ranger bows suck", etc, etc.

Seems from what I read, that paragon has decent ranged dps on top of group support and a lot of survivability. Is that true?

Nechrond · Sep 16, 2010, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cambios

What about this barrage/pet ranger? The R/Rt?

Fairly easy to play, deals good AoE damage, not-so-great single target damage (but decent enough), and is still good in Hard Mode. But you won't be able to start as R/Rt in Nightfall. You'll either have to start in Factions, or switch to /Rt later on.

Desert Rose · Sep 16, 2010, 09:02 AM // 09:02

In GW physical attacks, especially from melee weapons, are the main damage source; if you want to deal good damage throughout the entire playtime choose a physical (Warrior, Assassin, Dervish, Ranger, Paragon). While Rangers and Paragons don't deal as much damage with their class weapon (bow, spear) as the other 3 classes with their melee weapon both classes can use melee weapons well enough for normal PvE (this means not farming like for example SpeedClears).
Casters are mostly only used as (main) damage dealers in Tank'n'Spank teams in endgame ares; one or more players pull about a dozen or more foes together and then multiple casters uses their AoE abilities to kill all pulled foes within seconds.
Barrage is good when the team build was designed to support it, when you play normally there won't be enough foes clumping together to make it worthwhile, and if you're playing in a Tank'n'Spank team the casters will have killed all foes before you have fired two or three times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cambios

I see the ranger has some AoE arrows and such. Any CC or knockdowns or anything like that? Any kind of defense or survivability?

GW is a team game, as a physical you normally try to deal as much damage as possible while your team mates keep you alive; you can use skills to increase your survivability (and rangers are one of the best classes for that), but it's usually better to divide the roles, for example the Warrior deals damage, the Ele hampers the opponent's Warrior to deal damage, and the Monk uses protection buffs and heals to keep the Warrior, Ele and himself alive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cambios

How is paragon dps compared to ranger dps? I read some more posts and its all "ranger bows suck", etc, etc.

That will vary greatly based on the build you're using; for example when you go all out damage as a paragon you can deal a comparable damage to a ranger, be it spear versus bow or both using scythes or daggers.
Bow damage "sucks" in PvE because it's smaller than the damage of melee weapons and the advantage of bow damage, namely be able to deal damage from afar, is not that important because foes in PvE rarly use snares and run away from melees.

Quote:

Seems from what I read, that paragon has decent ranged dps on top of group support and a lot of survivability. Is that true?

Paragons have good survivability because of their base armor of 80, an armor upgrade (insignia) that gives them virtually permanent +10 armor and their shield which gives them additional +16 armor; but they don't have skills that increases their survivabilty by much, but as I have said above a physical doesn't really need that.
Paragon has plenty of good builds, but one build, the infamous Imbagon, is way better than any other Paragon build, that's why many players think it's the only "good" build.

Cambios · Sep 16, 2010, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

Paragons have good survivability because of their base armor of 80, an armor upgrade (insignia) that gives them virtually permanent +10 armor and their shield which gives them additional +16 armor; but they don't have skills that increases their survivabilty by much, but as I have said above a physical doesn't really need that.
Paragon has plenty of good builds, but one build, the infamous Imbagon, is way better than any other Paragon build, that's why many players think it's the only "good" build.

Thanks for joining in the discussion. More info really helps.

I went back to my war/para for a bit and I guess I need to figure out a way to be happier with him. I'm thinking the secondary I chose was a mistake, as I'm basically getting nothing out of it. I don't know how long it will be until I can change that.

I am really intrigued by the paragon. The imbagon build seems kinda nice honestly. It has a few damage skills and tons of survivability. Is there a good more dps build?

Also, what abilities should I be making a priority as I level up a paragon?

Finally, what is a good secondary for fun, effective, fast advancement through the PvE storyline?

Thanks!

Sep 16, 2010, 03:55 AM // 03:55	#1
Cambios Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005	Returning player: confused on proper henchman use, strategies, lvling up builds, etc. Quick background: I bought GW when it came out. For whatever reason it just didn't catch me. I always liked the business model and planned to give it a shot later. Fast forward to now, I grabbed all the expansions and even the bonus pack, and am having a lot of fun. But I feel like I'm doing a lot of things wrong. I made a new character in Nightfall figuring it would be easier to re-learn the game with a new character. He's now a level 9 warrior/paragon. I have two heroes - a warrior and a monk. I generally run with Kimh (the monk) henchman because when I don't we just get torn up. I feel like I am setting my heroes/henchman up with the wrong powers or something, or maybe even my own character. My character's template: OQkSEPKSCF7gBGAhwbXF/VdF Koss's template: OQASEH6NCF/CgJwoV4K/VBA Dunkoro's template: OwAT0MnApJjASyJ0V8BKplETAA Gearwise, I'm using mostly Sunspear Cuirass crafted armor from the npc, Turai's Sword, Serrated Shield from /bonus. I basically just let my henchman do their own thing. I don't micromanage any of their buffs, other than the fact that I have Koss' frenzy turned off and I only hit it when I think its safe. I have done a lot of research on builds, but almost everything I find is about end game builds. So leveling up I don't really know what I should be shooting for, how I should be getting my "good" skills unlocked, etc. Your help is greatly appreciated!

Sep 16, 2010, 04:23 AM // 04:23	#2
Marty Silverblade Administrator Join Date: Jun 2006	For reference: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Que ry 1) TNTF is too expensive. 2) Get Flail. Unlock it using Balthazar Faction and then buy it in Kamadan. http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unlock http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zaishen_Challenge http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Qu ery 1) WY needs Tactics. 2) Ditch Frenzy. Unless you can build to accomodate it, it'll do more harm then good, especially on a hero. 3) Get Flail. http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Que ry 1) Get rid of the smites. You're better off having Dunkoro keep you alive and have another damage dealer than Dunkoro not being good enough and having to take another monk. --------------------- Overall it's not too bad. You just need to get more/better skills. Unlocking them means your heroes can use them (without you needing to buy them) so if you find good hero builds it isn't hard to put them together. Also, if you want an easy introduction, Prophecies is a better option. __________________

Sep 16, 2010, 06:44 AM // 06:44	#6
Marty Silverblade Administrator Join Date: Jun 2006	Paragons are by far the last thing you want to play if you want to farm a lot. Their skills are based on buffing their team. They aren't designed with any solo survivability. Also, Elementalists can AoE nuke, which they do perfectly well in Normal Mode, but as they get further into the game the damage they deal gets lower (foes have more levels and more armor) so they're better off running support type builds. There is no reason you can't nuke if you want to, you just won't be as efficient as you could be. __________________

Sep 16, 2010, 06:50 AM // 06:50	#7
Nijntjuh Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: mcdonalds @ kaineng Guild: Mirror Of Reason [SNOW] Profession: D/	You seem overconerned with farming I'd suggest you just play through the storyline and get a feel for the game you don't have to farm to get up to your max equipment. If you insist on farming as soon as you hit level 20 then you might want to take a look at this website: www.pvxwiki.com it has alot of builds stored and has a farming section which might suit you. Farming Section: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Category:G...farming_builds Speedclear Section: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Category:G...king_SC_builds Speedclears are basicly like the name says clearing an area in the lowest amount of time as possible to get the reward. These are usually done in a team of 8 people. I don't think you should focus on these speedclears yet though they require a sort of knowledge of gw skills and use you will pick the basics up after playing through nightfall campaign I guess. You'r best bet to learn these speedclears after that is to watch some videos on youtube to get an idea of what to do and then join a PuG (Pick up Group) Last edited by Nijntjuh; Sep 16, 2010 at 07:22 AM // 07:22..

Sep 16, 2010, 08:05 AM // 08:05	#12
Marty Silverblade Administrator Join Date: Jun 2006	Paragons aren't anything special DPS-wise. Rangers are probably better (definitely if you run Daggers or Scythe). Don't worry too much about the people that say that Rangers suck. While it's true that they don't do as much damage as other professions, they're definitely not useless. If you want to play one, play one. It's a game remember, you're supposed to be having fun. __________________

Sep 16, 2010, 06:29 AM // 06:29	#5
Cambios Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005	Yeah when I said solo I meant H/H. I've been reading all the class guides and its weird how classes don't end up playing the role I'd expect. I expected elementalist to be a class, ranged and/or AoE nuker, but it sounds like that's not the case. I generally prefer light tank/dps tank type characters, though when I can do that ranged its even better. I started looking at the paragon. That looks interesting. They don't have much/any AoE though so I'm wondering how well they can grind/farm. I actually enjoy grinding. ;p

Sep 16, 2010, 07:26 AM // 07:26	#8
Nechrond Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Netherlands Guild: Utrecht Usurpators Profession: D/	Actually, if you prefer H/H, I'd stick with what you've got. The AI for melee henchies and heroes is not very good; if you do the melee part yourself, you will, on average, have smarter henchies. Don't worry about not having ranged heroes, you'll get plenty later on. Warrior has decent AoE as well, through an elite skill called 100 Blades (only works on a sword warrior).

Sep 16, 2010, 07:42 AM // 07:42	#9
Cambios Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005	Basically, I want a fun character to get my first to level 20 so I can see more of the game. My warrior/paragon (level 10 or 11) isn't bad, but chasing after people in melee sometimes gets annoying. I don't know if that gets better later. Paragon sounds interesting. It has range. Seems to have good DPS via the "Imbagon" build, and good team support. Elementalist seems like it would be cool to for blasting through mobs to go through the storyline. One thing that is tough is I cannot find any "leveling up guides" anywhere. Everything is end game. So I can't figure out what I should have at say level 5, or level 10 to see if I am moving in the right direction.

Sep 16, 2010, 08:46 AM // 08:46	#17
Cambios Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005	Thanks for continuing to discuss this and answer questions. I know I'm being annoying with my bouncing all over the place. How is paragon dps compared to ranger dps? I read some more posts and its all "ranger bows suck", etc, etc. Seems from what I read, that paragon has decent ranged dps on top of group support and a lot of survivability. Is that true?